Upcoming Death Knight Changes
Ghostcrawler finally dropped word on the before mentioned upcoming DK changes. Overall I think we just got a graze by the nerf bat, I’m happy and excited about the chagnes.
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Thoughts? Reactions? Are you happy for the tanking changes or scared about the PvP nerfs?
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I think this was a sizable nerf to Unholy DKs.
The armor boost is really nice but I don’t see how it makes up for what is lost. The Bone Armor loss is major. If Unholy DKs were competitive as raid tanks, will that change?
I may be over reacting but it feels like Frost DKs are now the defacto raid tanks and Unholy may be relegated to the role of OT at least as far as 25 mans are concerned.
I think Blizzard could have addressed the PvP issues much better.
I am happy that Blood got some attention but I will have to wait and see what the overall result is. I think (as an Unholy DK) I will be very disappointed in the changes.
The shame in this is that I was hoping we would be a tanking class that can rezz, but now we’re in the same boat as warriors, unable to do anything BUT tank. Unholy, which was previously considered to be the best DK DPS tree, has had it’s damage nerfed again, and tank moves are buffed majorly. So basically we’ll see a noticable drop in people playing DK’s or just in people raiding on them because you will be forced into tanking if this trend continues.
What I want to know is if anyone has any math on how much more mitigation the frost presence buff will bring in T7 level gear. Is it on par with the mitigation lost? And if not, how much armor would it to make up for it if indeed it could be made up for.
I really get the feeling its a pretty harsh nerf. I don’t think the frost presence change is sufficient to close the mitigation gap and lower the spikeyness of our damage. I think it would take something else. On the original thread I posted the idea of DKs getting a shield that absorbs X amount (scaling based and AP, or whatever) after each parry, and easying up on the DR of parry and dodge for DKs. I am not sure that will happen, but we shall see.
[...] You can rewview the proposed changes here. Leave a comment [...]
Love the change as a Blood Spec tank. :]
And don’t lol at me you cookie cutter dipshits.
I welcome these changes, im not much of a pvp’er but do it occasionally, but i am a tank by heart, and rerolled DK with fully frost spec for tanking, so far its going good, altho i can run into trouble on ninja pulled packs and if tanking for ppl who outgear me by far, so the increased threat on runestrike i really look forward to see, the reduction on IF well cant really say im gonna dislike it before i see the impact of the reduction, but 30% reduction seems like alot considering its our way of shieldblocking, but with various trinkets and UA i guess we just have to see how much it a nerf it is.
well… what can i say, 25% of the changes are good, 75% suck donkey ballz.
especially the reworked Hearstrike is so terrible. its nothing but a cleave clone now. it was something special with its debuff and now?
also i really dislike bonehsield @20%. that is nearly nothing.
and about the PvP things:
i played as deep blood and deep frost for some weeks (i hate beeing a cookiecutter dipshit so i DID NOT pvp as unholy, i dont raid as one either) and it is really hard for me to win fair battles (yes i know 1on1 is not what pvp is balanced around).
but dks lack so much “tools” a melee must have that it hurts and know they take away our survivability WITHOUT giving us something to compensate…
- we still have ZERO mobility.
- we get still kited to death against smart players
- we are still to diseasedependend in pvp in order to selfheal/deal serious dmg (dispelled to death?)
- our snare is still dispellable and prevents using our big hitters/selfheal for 10 seconds
I’m looking forward to these changes. I think they represent an overall buff to the playability and tanking ability of DKs of all specs.
I wrote a more detailed assement here.
http://omenscourge.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghostcrawler-speaks-again.html
We’re not getting nerfed at all. we’re getting buffed. Even tho i play as unholy dps i don’t see any nerfs here. 40/70% avoidance is great. That’s all i want for my pet. And buffing blood is something that should have been done ages ago. and 20% less damage for 5 strikes for the cost of 10 seconds without an unholy rune is great. 40% was a bit too good.
I also like the fact that we’re less cd dependant. and the rp cost reduced by 20 for all 51 point talents is great aswell. now i might be able to work in ub in my rotation without too much hassle. The new tanking runeforge is just too imba. 2% health and 25 def. Not rating but skill.
Lets be serious.. it was too good to be true. When played correctly, a UH DK had -40% damage ruduction (BS) followed by a -50% damage ruduction+immune to stuns (IBF) followed by -40% damage ruduction (BS).
ALthough very usefull when tanking it could be too OP in pvp..
It is a nerf but I take it as a balancing issue with other classes
anyone know when this patch is going live?
I have never seen any changes to any classes i have played as nerfs, its adjustments and if one self adjust to the changes they can perform just as good as before if not better.
how things changes in the matter of PvP i dont care about never did, at the end of the day it doesnt matter how OP your class are if you lack the skills to use it, any skilled player can take down an opponent that isnt skilled even if hes outgeared by him/her.
We’re not getting nerfed, we’re getting buffed? If you’re a PvE’er, I agree. If you’re a PvP’er (esp as Unholy), I couldn’t disagree more.
PvP Changes:
– 50% less damage from Rune Strike (this was needed, though)
– 15sec off of CD of AMS (this is VERY nice!)
– Double the healing from Blood Aura, Blood Presence and Death Pact (this is going to make blood in PvP much more attractive, imo)
– Boneshield absorbing 20% less damage (needed to an extent, but 20% less? How about 10-15%?)
– Icebound Fort absorbing 30% less damage (it already makes us stun immune, so I can’t really complain about getting 15 stun immune and any bit of damage reduction, I guess)
– 20% more armor from Frost Presence and 10% less magic damage taken (this is going to be great for FCs)
– 70% AoE reduction for pet (it’s not huge, but it will help)
– 20sec shaved off of Shadow of Death (I don’t mind this one bit since you’re typically targeted and killed within 15-20sec of becoming a rogue, er… ghoul)
– 20rp reduction on 51pt talents (I don’t have UB in my PvP spec, but I know some do so that will be quite nice)
– Temporary Last Stand through Vampiric Blood (extra ‘oh shit’ button for Blood DKs
After writing this, I retract my original statement. We’re not getting nerfed, we’re getting balanced. As an extremely avid PvPer (and lover of Unholy), I welcome these changes. I would like to get more info on the glyph changes, though.
Also – why did they buff Horn of the Winter? And why did they put a 30sec CD on it? That’d be like putting a 30sec CD on Battle Shout – what’s the point?
Meh, I love it. people forget, or disregarded the blue posts from blizzard I guess. DK’s were designed to be “Hero class” to fill a void of a lack of tanks. so for the PVE changes its great… they are keeping with the original intent.
for the PVPers, well, too bad. how you had fun.
This sounds like a very good change, overall.
I have been tanking heroics as frost, and with the armor boost and additional 10% reduction to magic damage, I think my main healer will not notice the difference between me and other tanks as much(he could tell when my cooldowns weren’t active).
As long as the Icebound Fortitude tooltip shows just how much damage is reduced (i.e., it says 35% when I’m in my def-capped tanking gear) and I don’t have to guess how much the new version is buffing me, I won’t complain.
In non-tanking ways, this is a huge buff in every other way. Better glyphs (the minor ones just suck, I’m sorry, very little use for most of them unless you’re an unholy build) will help everyone, and +healing to blood presence/aura will help healers out when I dps for raids.
And Heart Strike=Cleave!! I can tank as blood if I want and dps like an arms warrior! No one noticed the effect of the haste debuff anyway.
I don’t know about the new Will of Necropolis, though. I’m hoping he means its like the pally talent-the one that makes ALL damage taken reduced when hp is below 35% health
Also – why did they buff Horn of the Winter? And why did they put a 30sec CD on it? That’d be like putting a 30sec CD on Battle Shout – what’s the point?
Reason being is they are allowing horn of winter to generate RP instead of taking, so they dont’ want u world cooldown buffing yourself 100 RP constantly so u can blow off death coils and become a caster lmao. No Pun Intended
@Vile – I wouldn’t imagine that IBF’s tooltip would change based on your defense, but I’m sure there will be a formula to calculate how you’re benefitting from the ability. EJ will be on the ball with this one.
@Blod – I feel like an idiot… heh. I guess that was pretty obvious.
I realize that these changes need testing but Sooner is far-far-far better then later for these.
I’ve been a blood Tank since day one and loving it and a lot of these changes will fix what blood was lacking. We’ll still be a little short on some things but in general these changes rock!
Is it just me, or is Boneshield a little far down in the Unholy tree for the change that’s about to take place?
“Is it just me, or is Boneshield a little far down in the Unholy tree for the change that’s about to take place?”
Compared to it’s respective place and it’s mirror talents (unbreakable armor, Vampiric Blood) it was FAR too powerful
Imagine Battle Shout has no cost, and generates 10 rage. If you had a spare GCD, you’d use it to generate free 10 rage/RP. In addition, why wouldn’t you click that button 10 times before going into combat to walk in with a full Rage/RP bar? That’s why there is a new 30 second CD.
The quote that I seemingly failed to implement was this:
Compared to it’s respective place and it’s mirror talents (unbreakable armor, Vampiric Blood) it was FAR too powerful
Quote- “but you can still use Blood Strike if e.g. you don’t want to break CC.”
Ye… these guys are hilarious, when was the last time someone used CC?
[...] why our Sigil supply seemed to be in short demand. In recent blue posts, Ghostcrawler said that more Sigils would be added to help us get rid of that starting Sigil that we’ve had since creation. Well [...]
[...] why our Sigil supply seemed to be in short demand. In recent blue posts, Ghostcrawler said that more Sigils would be added to help us get rid of that starting Sigil that we’ve had since creation. Well [...]
Imagine, tho, Frap! Blizzard made Victory Rush and Shockwave’s tooltips display just how much they scale with extra attack power: they can do it for Icebound Fortitude with defense rating.
I think it’s sad that we now do suck even more on PvP than before. And forcing the dk’s into the road of tanking when there’s already is good tanks out there. I Would chose warrior or druid if i wanted to be a tank. Now dk’s is not really a tank and neighter a fighter, it seems like we are nothing anymore but just a bad mix of everything that aint useful as a player for fun or for good gaming. Ironicly fun to levling up a dk to lvl 80 and now you are force to leave it behind instaid cause it’s useless.
You Forget that DK’s are supposed to be tanks, that is the whole reason they were implemented, is to add to the number of tanks available. Honestly DK tanking sucked prior to these changes, completely viable as a OT/5 man tank but never capable of MT raid bosses so these changes were needed. Also the nerf to IF was needed as in pvp on my warlock DK’s are ungodly hard to kill the only solution that I came up with is just to let them beat on my healer until I killed the dk’s partner.
Uh.. Single target threat generation is terrible atm for tanking as unholy. I cant believe the only buff to our threat, is runestrike, which we cant even use all the time specially to intially start a boss encounter, we need frost presence to generate WAY more threat. Becuase, in Tank gear we just cant keep up with geared dps, we have no huge threat inducing skills. No Devestate, Heroic strike. No lacerate, etc, every other tanking class has something that generates TONS of threat. DK have nothing thats huge on threat, and wasting 3 runes on a DnD mid fight, just will mess up rotation, and end up building less threat in the first place. Personally I think Frost presence itself, needs to just generate a ton more threat. Anyone else having problems getting out threated by under geared warriors/paladins ?? I am.. and I totally outgear them.
Any nerf that comes to Unholy DKs is not soon enough. On my server atleast, just about any other dps class has disappeared as everyone now wants the ungodly DK dps that comes from Unholy. It has gotten to the point of being ridiculous as I have been playing this game for over 3 years as a lock only to have someone who just started the game roll a DK in blues and greens out dps everyone else by 1k. I am happy that blizzard is taking notice to this and I hope more nerfs are to come so that skill can come back into the game as far as dps is concerned. Blizzard would be wise to do this as the “jedi” situation is what killed star wars online, so will the “DK” situation if it isnt fixed.
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