Tank enchant? Don't want Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle

[Sio]

Hi,
been away for awhile, but i have a question, which just isn't answered with a yes or no, so i am looking for some diskussion here^^

Here's my Armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nathrezim&n=Sio

I am capped at 540 def exactly, WITHOUT Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle. The 2% health don't cut it against the other enchants in my eyes, but which one?
Currently got Rune of The Fallen Crusader for the nice 15% avoid and aggro procc, i am the threat tank btw.
Thx for replying.

[Joshmaul]

Tanking without Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle? What blasphemy do you speak?

The only one I can imagine for a 2h weapon is Massacre. Admittedly, I don't use weapon enchants beyond those for spellpower (for my pally and warlock), since I use SSG for my DK tank, so my experience may be somewhat limited. However, if you were to keep to your runes (and I wouldn't see why not, since they're free and can be changed at any time), I would keep Fallen Crusader. It's probably one of the most used, and it's handy in the event you go in DPS gear.

[Mouse]

I won't weigh in on if it is the superior enchant if you don't want Stoneskin, but the other tank enchant, the one that was around before it was Swordshattering.  4% undiminished parry.

[Vexill]

Were you aware that in addition to the 2%stam, stoneskin gargoyle also provides you with 3% non-DR avoidance because of the contribution towards miss, dodge and parry that the 25 defense makes?

If you include that its by far the strongest rune chant, and give that all the other chants are only for 1H weps.... its going to be the best value.

[caervek]

What the guy above me said ^

also extra def boosts IBF and miss works on hunter mobs and direct damage spells too

IMO 2% stam and 3% avoidnace > 4% parry, if you think 2% stam doesnt warrant losing 1% avoidance then why did you spec blood? your losing 3% avoidance over frost to gain 3% stam

I really dont want to offend but with your gear if you need RotfC to hold TPS you must be doing something wrong

[TobiasX2k]

Hi,
been away for awhile, but i have a question, which just isn't answered with a yes or no, so i am looking for some diskussion here^^

Here's my Armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nathrezim&n=Sio

I am capped at 540 def exactly, WITHOUT Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle. The 2% health don't cut it against the other enchants in my eyes, but which one?
Currently got Rune of The Fallen Crusader for the nice 15% avoid and aggro procc, i am the threat tank btw.
Thx for replying.

If you really don't want / need +25 Def Skill and 2% Stam, go with 4% Parry. Can't remember the name.

[Sio]

TPS is only a problem in fights like Hodir HM and General (at least general the first 20 seconds). Although my gear is pretty bad in comparison to our damage dealers.
To be honest, i totally forgot the 4% parry rune. I've been wondering what i had before the deff/life rune came out but couldn't remember.
I think i'll just switch back to stone, i simulated the gain from crusader, it doesn't cut it at all^^

[Süffer]

Were you aware that in addition to the 2%stam, stoneskin gargoyle also provides you with 3% non-DR avoidance because of the contribution towards miss, dodge and parry that the 25 defense makes?

If you include that its by far the strongest rune chant, and give that all the other chants are only for 1H weps.... its going to be the best value.

That statement is not entirely accurate, and I think a fair number of people confuse that as entirely truth vexill. The issue is that in order to get the 3% additional avoidance in addition to the 2% stam the 25 defense needs to be above and beyond the 540 needed to cap. Otherwise all you are gaining is just the 2% stam. Just wanted to clarify as I've seen that thrown around a fair amount, and its not an entirely true statement. 565 defense skill, with SSG would be nessecary to only be losing 1% avoidance to swordshattering.

[Splug]

That statement is not entirely accurate, and I think a fair number of people confuse that as entirely truth vexill. The issue is that in order to get the 3% additional avoidance in addition to the 2% stam the 25 defense needs to be above and beyond the 540 needed to cap. Otherwise all you are gaining is just the 2% stam. Just wanted to clarify as I've seen that thrown around a fair amount, and its not an entirely true statement. 565 defense skill, with SSG would be nessecary to only be losing 1% avoidance to swordshattering.

Actually, Vexill's statement was correct.  One defense skill provides a .04% increase to dodge, parry, and block as well as a .04% reduction to chance to be hit or critically hit per point.  At 25 skill, this equates to 1% in each category - though the block effect is zeroed for deathknights.  The only significance of the 540 defense mark is that the critical hit reduction beyond that point drops the base critical hit chance of boss entities below zero.

The avoidance contribution of Stoneskin Gargoyle, as well as any other defense skill, occurs regardless of your current defense value.

-Splug

[Süffer]

Actually, Vexill's statement was correct.  One defense skill provides a .04% increase to dodge, parry, and block as well as a .04% reduction to chance to be hit or critically hit per point.  At 25 skill, this equates to 1% in each category - though the block effect is zeroed for deathknights.  The only significance of the 540 defense mark is that the critical hit reduction beyond that point drops the base critical hit chance of boss entities below zero.

The avoidance contribution of Stoneskin Gargoyle, as well as any other defense skill, occurs regardless of your current defense value.

-Splug

But again, its a miswording splug, they're stating that it adds 3% avoidance and the defense, but in fact to be using Swordshattering you would need 540 defense as well, and would have that passive 3% that SSG would've awarded you as well, so again swordshattering still comes out higher unless you're at 540 before stoneskin gargoyle.

[Splug]

But again, its a miswording splug, they're stating that it adds 3% avoidance and the defense, but in fact to be using Swordshattering you would need 540 defense as well, and would have that passive 3% that SSG would've awarded you as well, so again swordshattering still comes out higher unless you're at 540 before stoneskin gargoyle.

I never saw a mention of defense and avoidance, the original quote was:

Were you aware that in addition to the 2%stam, stoneskin gargoyle also provides you with 3% non-DR avoidance because of the contribution towards miss, dodge and parry that the 25 defense makes?

This post indicates the avoidance gain is a direct result of the defense, not a function in addition to it.

Whether pushing from 520 defense skill to 545, or 540 to 565, the raw avoidance gain from using the stoneskin gargoyle runeforge is 3%.  It is possible that foregoing the stoneskin gargoyle runeforge may land a character's defense rating in a range which allows critical hits, at which point alternate gearing mechanisms are very strongly advised to close the critical-hit threshold.  While the defense gained through whatever alternate means would provide avoidance, that is the result of an unrelated gear change that would have the same changes regardless of runeforge.  

Changing runeforges has a very simple and direct effect on avoidance: Stoneskin Gargoyle adds 3% avoidance, Swordshattering adds 4%.  Changing runeforges may also alter your evaluation of an ideal gear set, due to differences in defense rating required - but the avoidance resultant from each gear set may.  A "miswording" would be to indicate the runeforge has a variable direct effects on avoidance pending upon current defense skill - it does not.

-Splug

(Completely unrelated: Suffer, your signature link is broken.  Clicking it attempts to load a page titled, "my%20armory".  The bbcode format for a hyperlink is [ url=http://website.address.here]Text to display here[ /url].  You may have inverted the two fields.  Alternatively, [ url]http://website.address.here[ /url] will work without providing a custom tag.)

[Süffer]

You're correct the original post didn't reference it, my mentioning it was somewhat unrelated as I see it tossed around a fair amount. I just didn't want someone to misconstrue that stonesking gargoyle was going to add on and additional 3% above and beyond is all. I see it tossed around a fair amount, and by itself is not nessecarily an avoidance rune is all. Thanks for the heads up on the signature thing, I don't recall why it came up wrong, might've had a few the night I set it